so are we getting refunds
i wanna know if all of us that spawned into market with maxed chars with good gear are gonna get a refund. because im sure im not the only one that got kinda pissed after spawning in and insta popping.
@Mars I presume it's still "Sorry for your loss, no reunds.". Else everything that happened today would be for nothing.
quoted directly from nilly on 11/10/16 "no"
Anyone got some pictures?
Probably going to rollback a couple of days
@DrWhen How many days?
I ain't so sad to see this. It made me giggle.
it's funny, cuz mostly 0/8's dying
@DrWhen well that's dumb, rip 2 days of farming
what's so hard about manually resurrecting, kabam did that for a hack several thousand times the scale of this one
@idkwhatthi Manually resurrecting wouldn't even start to fix the chaos that was caused. Items were likely /gifted and dungeons were popped.
"Rip 2 days of farming" vs Rip nearly everybody who entered the market for a day. One sounds a lot better. Also Kabam's "resurrection" didn't fix the problem. It merely damage controlled it.
@ColdBlade Likely two or three. Either from today or from the day of the incident back.
@Pringle rollback is damage control as well, how many shatters whites, jeebs whites, STs, asylum whites, tomb whites will be lost? Many more than characters from the hacker, that's for sure...
You weren't there, the hack lasted hardly 30 minutes, no items were gifted (at least publicly), and no dungeons were popped by the hacker, except a single /quake Maze which he spawned some shit in.
You realize the days we only had marketplace were in fact more profitable than the ones where we did not, simply due to the quantity of asylums, jeebs, and tombs popped?
I'd go even farther and suggest that only those that were /kill 'd should be resurrected. I was in the middle of the chaos on my Trickster and didn't even come close to getting killed - let alone unfairly...
disclaimer: i was in the maze, not in market (because i got into pandora, along with three others) when reportedly a boshy and a megaman were spawned, but at that point it was clear that it was an active hacker situation and you should have logged out if you didn't want to lose shit...
TL;DR: Rollback is definately better than simply reviving players. There could of been stuff not publicly shown that could have been more hidden. The safest option would be weeks of rollback, but that would seriously piss off the community and cause many to quit. One or two days rollback? Nothing to complain about as far as I see, seeing as a hacker hacked the server and got admin powers.
What you don't understand is that rolling the server back is more server protective than just resurecting players who may have had gifted items to begin with. It is well known that there was a hacking incident. If people knowingly played with this in mind then they should of understood the risks of a rollback.
"You weren't there" I don't have to be. I was in discord watching nearly everything reported as well as in a discord chat with people there. Of corse no items were "publicly" gifted. If somebody hacked the game, they could of gifted in days advance. If somebody has the power to gift, they likely will. It is absolutely stupid to think that they wouldn't. It's not like the event magically went under the radar, I've seen two videos of the event and heard and seen people and their screenshots of it and I was seeing countless complaints on the forums and discord.
Dozens of people died from simply entering the market place. Simply resurecting them isn't going to fix anything. I can only assume most people popped dungeons in market place because of that being pretty much the only place you could go, not because of the hacker. Sure you may have not died, but plenty of my friends have, and if you look on the forums from people complaining you could see other people did too. The hacking incident definately did not just last '30 minutes' and I don't have to be there to know that. Once the hacker realized he could hack, he definately threw it out for a spin for awhile. Plus there is a high chance he got the ability to hack days before he pulled this stunt, got a bunch of items (even a boshy gun possibly) and hid them in other accounts and alts days to weeks before the incident. Sure you could argue rollbacks don't entirely fix that, but they sure as hell are an improvement than simple resurrection.
You don't brush off hacker incidents with "Oh he didn't do too much, nothing to worry about." because half of the problems he caused might have not been public. All this being said, a rollback is still a much better option than simply pulling a kabam and resurrecting a few people despite thousands of O3s were spawned back then causing a huge influx of tops and pots. Yeah, they really fixed that problem, didn't they?
But thats just my opinion, right?
@Pringle um, because that one guy that got firestorm totally won't be pissed
because the ten or so people that got bracer totally won't be pissed
because the twenty or so people that got Ancient Spell: Pierce totally won't be pissed
because the thirty or so people that got Captain America Sword totally won't be pissed
because the hundred or so people that got Unholy Spell totally won't be pissed
because the hundreds more people that got some other UT totally won't be pissed
honestly i don't care because i got no whitebags at all recently, but a rollback would be far too damaging to do right now.
Nilly has logs of gifting items, so that's a total non-issue...
What doesn't resurrecting a person that the hacker killed fix? Do we need to give them back the 24-hours or so that they were unable to play their char?
The hacker didn't spawn near enough stuff to instakill you unless you literally spawned on top of the mob, in which case you had plenty of advance warning because the reports were literally everywhere.
tl;dr, the only viable argument you make is that the hacker may have gifted items, but nilly has gift logs and that' a simple second step after resurrecting people lol
We both have guildies who were killed by the hacker.
We both also have guildies that got lucky in dungeons just before, or just after the hacker.
Creepsteam and TurtleBat were killed.
Lugia got Ancient Spell : Pierce.
LagoonZZ got Captain America Sword.
Instead of pulling the 'friends' card, how about you notice the fact that despite the fact that people died, a rollback will have more negative impacts than positive ones.
Since you were not ingame, you would not know the scale of the dungeon poppings, that occurred.
My best guess: 30+ Shatters, 10 or so killed the Forgotten King; 200+ Asylum, 100+ Tomb, 100+ Shaitans were popped in the two-day period. The impact on the economy from erasing loot from this is far greater than the relatively few people that were killed.
No one posts on forums about getting several hundred fame worth of drops from a dungeon. Everyone posts on forums if they were killed by a hacker, even if their char was worth less than the above.
A vocal minority is not the majority.
@idkwhatthi Well Said.
"Oh yeah, but these guys will be pissed because they got items. Let's forget the fact that a huge fucking problem happened in the market and watter it down with a bunch of people who got a strange amount of awsome items all the sudden after a hacker incident. Oh, not strange at all!"
The only thing you really brought up was the fact that Nilly had gift logs.
Pulling the friends card? Don't use the "Oh you're just pulling this card" argument, it just makes you look desperate. I only said friends because those are people who I know and heard from and can recall easily. I'm not trying to make you feel emotional. Just because I use the word 'friend' doesn't mean I'm pulling a card. We're talking about a rollback here, not desperately trying to claim that people are pulling cards. You could say that I'm overreacting about the fact you said that, but honestly stuff like that needs to stop.
You want to know what resurrecting players doesn't fix? Fame being pumped into the economey from those dead players. When people die they get fame. Seems like an obvious problem here, doesn't it? Fame getting pumped into the market from little to no effort at all? By your logic, if you mass killed yourself on all your characters and got a bunch of fame and then you get revived, it's like you didn't get killed at all, but it isn't like that. People die = fame into market. People revive = fame and living players now in market. Just seems bad nomatter how you paint it. Also I still hold strong to the 'resurrecting doesn't fix the gifted items issue'.
Also evil water is pretty much an instant kill for level 0 mules.
A huge amount of those dungeon opening also could have been from death fame, furthering the point that simply reviving people doesn't really fix the problem at all.
The logs doesn't really fix the gifted problem. Items could of been traded away. Plus, with a rollback people get their keys/fame back so they can pop it again. It's not like everything from the dungeons is lost. Just shuffles up the loot bag a bit, though I do admit it sucks to lose loot. Although the loot is gone, the dungeons aren't. A good bit of that loot can be pulled back into the economy just by popping the dungeons again.
How I see things right now...
Poof, previous situation never happened.
2-3 Days loss of progress.
Hacker impact very likely secretly remains
Revive and Check Logs:
People keep the progress they've made in those few days.
Death Fame stuck in economy
Doesn't fix the problem of people being gifted something and then them trading it away. What are they going to do then?
Hacker impact very likely secretly remains
Death Confusion [People could of died other ways not related to the hacker and then just blamed it on the hacking event.]
Also, sorry our argument is getting heated. A bit of mudslinging is unfortunately in my blood. The entire thing is just one big lose-lose situation in the end of the day.
because boshy gun et cetera are totally not soulbound
everything else is basically irrelevant tbh...
a tiny bit of death fame is totally going to affect the economy more than two days' worth of loot
I'm pretty damn sure rollback resurrects people that died of other reasons as well...
Also the 'gifting' is nothing but speculation and conspiracy regardless. Better to save what we know is there than to drop it all and fight a windmill.
Things such as cap swords, UH wands, and Sonic heads are tradable. The problem isn't just boshy guns. If a whole bunch of expensive items get gifted then it doesn't seem so irrelevant, does it?
That death fame? It actually does mean a lot. A sharp increase in fame in the economy negatively affects everything with inflation. It may not be world ending, but it is definately something to consider. Also chance is chance. If people opened dungeons before then they can do it again. Who knows, from this new batch of dungeons there could be more items and UTs gained.
The gifting is an insane problem. Despite being speculation, if it isn't then dozens of items in the market could have their prices drop by insane amounts. Possible problems shouldn't be ignored for just being speculation and conspiracy if they can have such a big impact on the market. There could even be more admin items stashed away somewhere now. But you are right that it is speculation. This just stands to be a possibly large problem that isn't entirely apparent.
Yes rollback does ressurect people who died from other things as well, but admins aren't sifting through that information for hours/days, now are they?
I just feel like a rollback is a much safer option for the economy and the server in general.
To be honest this entire situation is mostly just speculation anyways.
@Pringle do you realize that hardly two dozen people were killed by the hacker?
unless the hacker spawned in several thousand of those items, legitimately obtained items would still account for twenty or so times more fame value.
Some tens of thousands of death fame is nothing in the grand scheme of the economy. Some hundreds of thousands worth in items are something.
If you have no problem with resurrecting everyone via rollback, you should have no problem with resurrecting everyone that got killed in that time period.
tl;dr: a small chance of a situation that we don't know for sure existed is no justification for erasing far more.
@idkwhatthi Basically what we're saying is "Fuck you people who got whites in those 2 days, get them again you fucking scrubs.
Nilly has done a rollback before, and people get pissed about losing their obtained loot in those days, but in the grand scheme of things Nilly doesn't care about your 2 days, shut the fuck up and farm it again."
@Sycxx okay then i'll say fuck those people that got killed by hacker those fucking scrubs
why should i care about 30ish people over hundreds?
Wth is even happening
do you realize that is still a big problem? Items themselves are worthless in the market without fame. Increased fame, lower price of items. Increased items possibly from gift command also equals lower price of items. People mass spending their death fame on dungeons to add insane amounts of items into the economy? even lower price of items. The rollback is a quick change that fixes the problem with very little to worry about. Simply reviving people and dealing with soulbound gifts is just a change that makes people happy but leaves the server in a state that takes weeks to months to fix. The uncertainty of what the hacker did when he had admin powers is enough in my opinion to justify a rollback.
Who knows, he may of. He's a hacker in an admins body, he could of done absolutely anything.
I still think rollback is much better because its preparing for the worst, and thats always the best idea.
I don't have a problem ressurecting people via rollback. I still think directly reviving people is generally dumb due to death fame.
Also I wouldn't say the chance is small. If the hacker had a brain at all, the best way to cause long-term damage to the server would be to negatively affect the economy. If we know a hacker had gifting powers then that ALONE is justification for a rollback.
TL;DR: The simple fact that a hacker had admin powers is enough justification for a rollback.
@ColdBlade someone decided to trash the civility of the conversation, that's what happened
@idkwhatthi Yeah pretty much.
Debating is pretty fun tbh.