Ruin Island Idea rejected (By Moloch)

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )

    Hey... so this is actually my first time posting in this sub topic. Felt that this was more appropriate than flaming it on the normal one.

    You can see it here:

    I'll be expecting a lot of hate too. Please do note that this is my side of the story. Also, sorry for long text :/

    So here is what happened:

    I was doing a private run of the dungeon above normally.
    Suddenly, Moloch went and link it back up, the whole private dungeon testing process was ruined because of overload of Portal spawning and enemies breaking out of their walls.
    So I went to do it again a few more times, but Moloch kept telling me how "it was rude for me to do so" for opening it as usually Dream Worlds have notifications when they are being linked. Because the server was "RIP Harambe" and it had the most number of players that time, I changed servers to "dab like rachel" which had the fewest players. Hence, I won't be wasting much of peoples' time by "falsely" opening the dungeon to let private testers in. Moloch then tracked me down to "dab like rachel" and talked to me again.
    He told me that my map was unwanted and "trash" ,

    If you knew what I was doing the past 2 months, I usually open and close dungeons immendiately to allow only my private testers to get in.

    This is because:

    1- Public runs of the dungeon shows that when people come in, they would rush for fun (and die) as they knew they can't die in Dream Worlds. Furthermore, this ruins the the way enemies behave as most enemies in the dungeon consist of Shatters enemies. If you screw yourself up, you screw others as well.

    2- It was not meant to be a public dungeon.
    Firstly, the dungeon is not designed to cater the public on event running (like Asylum), but guilds. Guilds are the better way to know that your dungeon runs are controlled, and the dungeon here is designed to challenge that.

    1. /dinvite doesn't work in Dream worlds
      There is no way I can tell all the people in the server "Hey don't come here. We're private testing it" The fact that the function doesn't work in dream worlds just show that I have to be inconvenient in linking to allow private testers in only. I do get messages like "why is the dream world not showing", "y u du dis" and sometimes "lier".
      I'm already annoyed by these messages that keep showing up whenever I'm doing my testing. I stopped telling them the reason ever since.

    Mappers are limited to what they have on the editor, and asking the current admins to add sprites is (slightly) useless nowadays since no one have time to do so or they just don't really like it. There is no back button to the menu at the editor screen, so you have to refresh, no way of controlling the people you allow in dream worlds, and no way that you can ensure that you're doing a private run of the dream world. Maybe switching server to a lesser populated server works, but this only happened like a week ago. (?)

    Now onto what Moloch said about my map. I forgot the phrasing he said it, but it went something like this:

    "This map is suicidal. Everyone died in 2 seconds when I relinked it"

    If I threw you a new Shatters map in Prod when it freshly came out, with no evidence or history that Shatters was there before (maybe except for the Dungeon Suggestion Thread)
    Everyone would die normally, because they're not used to it. The difficulty of the dungeon is on a new level than Shatters, and people would die not knowing what would happen at first. Though this might seem bad, but the way of the game is like this. You try new stuff, you die, you try it again. As I said before, the dungeon is up for a challenge to people who think they mastered the games' difficulty. I managed it such that it is possible, but still harder than any dungeon you faced before.

    "I'll demote your rank if you continue to do private testing without allowing the public to get in"
    Refer to the 3 points above why I do private testing.

    "I want a dungeon where the public can do and not 1-3 ppl"
    "This dungeon is meant to for people to be entertained"
    Not meant to be a public one. But let's turn away from the flow alright? This is a dungeon for guilds and trusted people, not the public.
    It is meant to be a challenge where people can master overtime. If you're telling me to nerf it, I can make an easy version of it, but challenge isn't there anymore. It will be the same cycle of the game again. No challenge, because you knew what to expect.
    Lets say this game thrives on admin events everyday.
    Pretty soon it will die as they become inactive... over time.
    I know that nilly doesn't prioritise that "people leaving the server" is a thing, but what's wrong with adding a challenge

    If you want to host this dungeon as an event and...
    You want this dungeon to be alright for the public without difficulties?
    Go ahead and use /setpiece Oasis Giant all the way to the last boss, break the way people get the items and ruin the economy.
    It is easy because the dungeon tends to run in a U-shape, doing Oasis won't make you encounter enemies in your way.
    Sorry if I went overboard on this one.

    Is entertaining a wrong word? I don't see what's wrong with it.
    It's not like I put a couple of chests onto the ground so that the public can come and break it to get loot that will break their hearts when they find that they can't take it to neuxs.

    "If you do private testing, the people will lose progress"
    .... You're thinking ahead way too much. I asked private testers for their permission to do so and they would (usually) agree if they have the time. Most of them are having fun testing since it's different from what they do everyday in the game. They don't (usually) mind using their time on helping me, sacrificing time for potential other progress.
    I won't want to force people, it is up to their choice.
    I also want to thank everyone who tested the map with me (^_^)/

    Now for anyone who says this:

    Anyone who says this:
    "No new boss/sprite/environment; not unique"

    The way the rate of activity goes, we're dwindling on dungeon ideas. Not all admins have time to do what you want them to add, or host events, or anything you can come up with your mind. Even if they are, they would not favour your idea to be added, either because it is just that bad or coding is required. By mixing everything up a bit, I created something slightly different from what you might face, so I tried my best to make something new for everyone, but as all Ideas go. I will get shot down by someone who doesn't like it.

    You can not please everyone.

    Anyone who says this:
    "Too hard"

    Challenge. It is not to be mastered that easily. That's why private testing allows me to know if the dungeon is possible, with normal factors. Even TomPooties is considered a normal factor (Please don't hate me, it just means that it is still possible if you get onto that skill of ROTMG)

    So, thanks for reading this?
    Time to feel the heat rays coming in soon.
    I can't give anything yet... I have to go now :)

  • Trading Moderators

    Fuck what he said. He doesn't get the final say.

    Here's what I said about the matter on a Discord channel earlier:
    Honestly, @Moloch do you think you can get his rank removed just because you want to whine about his map? Stop thinking you're in charge of everything; you're pretty much in charge of nothing. What you've said is extremely unprofessional. Honestly sometimes you're a fucking terrible admin.

  • :\ i got in to one of your private testings and moloch is wrong its a dungeon that is not meant for everyone its meant for the elite and honestly food i thought it was a good dungeon :\shame moloch is going nazi when it comes to modderating however :\

    but if it comes to it you can always just continue to do your private testing and pretty much flip molochlin the bird :)


    lmfao what

    while certain areas are rage-inducing and can lead to unfair deaths, this game DOES need a harder dungeon than shatters, which has pretty much become routine... keep working on it @Food ! :)

  • Donor

    I talked to Moloch a little bit too, but most of what he said (and what he said to Food) sounded very personal and subjective (if you feel the need to say 'this map is trash' more than once, you know what time it is...), which you shouldn't base your actions on, especially not if you're an admin.
    Maybe I'm missing something, but so far not a single one of your arguments has really held its ground. The only thing I could imagine you're against is the idea that this dungeon is meant to be a guild/private one, which you could argue is against the 'spirit of the game' or whatever, which I btw think is a weak argument.

    Tl;dr, if you don't like the dungeon, that's fine, just give us some clear reasoning.

  • @Food honestly i think you should be an admin (god knows you would do a good job of it) and moloch can just fuck off considering he comes on very infrequently even if he has a real life job and shit coming on once in a blue moon is kinda fucked hell im an admin on a tekkit classic server that is pretty much dead and i still go on every day see how the owner and other guys are doing then i go again

    its quite sad really NR is starting to fall from grace and glory...


    @hurrrdurrr if dungeons can only be oriented to public stupidity, tomb and shatters should be removed

  • @hurrrdurrr said in Ruin Island Idea rejected (By Moloch):

    this dungeon is meant to be a guild/private one, which you could argue is against the 'spirit of the game

    no the spirit of the game is to use the people to help eachother get through something...

    this dungeon requires team work its actually almost 100% impossible to do solo from what i saw in the private testing it is actually ridiculously hard if people just try to bumrush ahead because everything about the dungeon wants to kill you so with planning and hard team work it is the perfect dungeon but when it goes public its a fuckup... that is why it is so hard

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )


    Actually, I did, twice. But the last one I got demoted because I told nilly that I wouldn't contribute much this year because I have also irl things going on too.
    Likewise, everyone has better things to do in the game, I'm already satisfied with being rank 70.
    Being a rank above it shows that you have a duty to fulfill, in addition to not having fun because any item you get as an admin is soulbounded.

    Moloch may be hard at times, but I'm just really annoyed at what he done just now.
    2 months of work...wasted...?

  • @Food i know how much it hurts having a large chunk of time you have spent wasted i spent 8 months working on a project for me and my brother to help with our day to day lives just for him to give up on it and throw it away if we had of made it who knows it could have been worth so much more

    but anyway i think you should keep working on it and continue the private testing because it was a good map

    and i appreciate the work you put in to this game because if you dont nillard is the only one who really does at this point

  • Trading Moderators

    @Food No, it's not wasted. It's only wasted if nilly directly tells you otherwise. This dungeon has had extremely positive feedback from the community, one or two people disliking it means nothing. He's only one person, admin or not, if everyone else agrees then there's no problem.

    In a way it's like a president saying they don't want another election just because they're the current president. He can't just overrule everyone just because he has some power.

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )


    Replying to your previous comment of dungeon being able to solo.

    Moloch said any dungeon can be solo'd
    when I talked to him just now.
    It may be that impossible to think, but it is
    still more possible to do than a public dungeon

    Let's consider these facts:
    You're facing:
    -A 2 hour dungeon that can be done in a very small group (2-5 ppl), assuming that you don't split pathways because that would save much more time.
    -Turrets placed much more effectively to kill you

    • Different Classes that are needed to make dungeon much more easier
      (Priest to cure constant hex /status effects)
      (Mystic for Stasis)
      (Knight for possible stuns)
      (Huntress/Assasin/Wizard for ultimate long range)
      (Rogue/Trix to safely drag 9999999 hp enemies without getting blocked)
      (Warrior/Pally for buffers)
      (Sorc for low hp enemies killing such as spiders)
      (Other classes for dps and support)

    -Dragonflies and Lizard Assasins. Nuff' said.

    I try to make each class's purpose much more needed, and a solo class can still do it. However, you would already lost the patience to do so. Otherwise, connection error :3

  • @Food well in a game like this nothing is "impossible" it is just damn pointless to spend all that time doing what a small group could do in a quater of the time and @Wizardism well put

  • 🏤 Forum Citizens 🏡

    @Food I really enjoy this dungeon, so don't give up on it. Heck, why not have nilly decide on the final choice. I really am interested in the dungeon, and I'm impressed. It's AMAZING. Although I never get to test it :/

  • Lovecraft

    I see drink more than i see Moloch around lmao


    @Food so basically moloch doesn't like the fact that you're punishing idiots instead of letting them get carried in this dungeon?

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )

    Sorry I didn't really get what you mean


    @Food basically what moloch doesn't like is that if a group of unskilled players (such as if hosted in realm) goes in this dungeon, they get shrekt, instead of being able to be carried through it by 2-3 good players as is often the case in tombs and shatters?

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )


    Kinda. But I wouldn't be too sure since everyone normally rushes through it because it is a dream world, dying without worries. Dungeon can be carried by people too, but you might miss out on potential loot

    If you mean leeching though, it is still possible to leech :/
    On a side note on leeching,
    But the dungeon will be much better with trusted people because of its high but reasonable cost at 666 fame. (You can check my thread for the loot table.)
    Buyer would rather use his key for more profits when done with other trusted people.
    A guy could stay at the same place for a long time while running towards the loot.
    But Loot can be dropped everywhere, from eggs, looteyes to chests. By the time you rush there, the loot items would already have been destroyed, so you might as well stay with the group.

    Even so, staying with the group, you better know what you're going to do next or you might ruin someone else's attempt in the dungeon. (Ex. You break a dirt block blocking a paralyze turret, you make things worse for everyone)

  • Im almost certain that if a dungeon is like by a huge chunk of the community on the forums but one admin doesn't like it then it will go ahead. Also going back to what Hurrdurr said as soon as moloch entered the dungeon he didnt saying anything about the dungeon specifically just that it was "shit" and "a waste of time". Seemed more like he has a problem with food than his content which is no reason to try to ruin such a great dungeon.

    Also if the dungeon shouldn't be released because its too easy to die then why is there tombs, asylums, lair of shaitans, O2, O3, shatters, Ocean trench, Abyss and other dungeons in the game.

  • my nema jeff is a good meme

    It was such a good map, we tried it and I loved it.

    @Wizardism said in Ruin Island Idea rejected (By Moloch):

    Fuck what he said. He doesn't get the final say.



    @Food I don't care about leechers. I'm talking about people purposefully or ignorantly ruining the dungeon (see: people rushing first in shatters)

  • 烧烤酸奶 ( BBQ YOGHURT )


    That's basically what he said as one of his reasons, so yeah. A public run is dangerous without the correct group.

  • Sex Guns

    Moloch thinks he's always right, what a dumbass, like me, cuz I sometimes do that too.
    People like this map, and he's not the voice of the people, he's a failed admin, not as good as nilly, and doesn't even develop and release shit. Where's Moloch dungeon Moloch? Did you eat it?
    That's the way I see it.


    @Food smh, this game needs a dungeon where stupidity is punished

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